Sigrid
I’m going to start this interview with a Mexican word: apapacho.

Apapacho comes from Nahuatl – the Indigenous language my dad still speaks – and it means “to hug with the heart.” When you’re far from home and you meet someone from your country, that first hug often feels exactly like that: a hug with the heart.

In Mexico, when Mexicans meet abroad, we give each other an apapacho. And in this very cold German weather, to be honest, we all need one.

That’s one of the reasons we’re talking today with Nancy Bravo. Nancy is another Mexican in Germany, and every time I see her it’s not just about conversation, it’s also about that soul-level apapacho: we talk about what matters, about migration, about identity, and about everything we’ve had to navigate as internationals in Germany.

Nancy, welcome.

Nancy
Thank you. Thank you very much for this great invitation to your podcast, Sigrid.

From Mexico to Hamburg

Sigrid
Nancy, how long have you been in Germany now?

Nancy
Twenty-four years.

Sigrid
Do you feel German, Berliner, Hamburger… half-and-half?

Nancy
Well, I’m a Hamburgerin, I’m Mexican, and I’m a Mexican woman in Hamburg with a bicultural family. And yes, I feel good in Germany.

Sigrid
You started this journey twenty-four years ago, so you’ve seen a very different Germany than the one we live in today. And you founded your own company around thirteen or fourteen years ago. Tell us a bit about that.

Nancy
My company, Bravo Intercultural, is an agency focused on intercultural work – for companies, universities, and expat communities.

What I do is give people that apapacho: hope that Germany is not “so bad,” that Germany can actually be a very good place to work and to live.

I do this through intercultural trainings with my agency and also through my book, “Bravo, soy internacional.” These are tools that help me connect with people who are going through similar processes.

What does “intercultural” actually mean?

Sigrid
Let’s start with a basic but important question: what does intercultural really mean?

Nancy
Good question.

Let’s take Berlin as an example. Berlin is multicultural: many cultures in the same place.

Interculturality is the step after that – it’s the interaction between these people at the same level. In German we say auf Augenhöhe – eye to eye.

It means: I accept you. I accept differences and diversity. We share the same space and we are able to interact respectfully.

That’s interculturality.

Then there’s transculturality: when we take the best of your culture and the best of my culture and we create something new together – a shared culture in Germany.

Right now, many cities are still mostly at the first level: multiculturality.

Fear of “losing” culture

Sigrid
Are we afraid of losing our culture when more people migrate or when we ourselves move away? Where does that fear come from – and how do we overcome it?

Nancy
It’s actually very human.

We all need a group, an identity, a sense of belonging. That gives us security – our comfort zone.

Imagine you’re in a cave. Inside the cave you know everything, you feel safe. When you step outside, everything feels dangerous because it’s unknown.

It’s similar with cultures: If you never connect with other people, other languages, other ways of life, of course the “outside” feels threatening.

The key issue here is identity:

-I have my Mexican identity.

-I know who I am.

-But I need to adapt to a new environment.

At the same time, the other side also needs to move a bit. Integration is not a one-way street.

Right now we see a lot of separation. What we need is to reconnect – with apapachos.

Sigrid
See? I knew that word was the perfect starting point.

Being here and “there” at the same time

Sigrid
Let’s go a bit deeper.

My grandmother moved from Germany to Mexico in 1930. She never saw her grandmother again. There was no WhatsApp, no Instagram, no live updates. She had to fully build a life there: Spanish, tortillas, everything.

Today, it’s very different. I live in Berlin but I can see Mexico on my phone every single day. I’m here, but in some ways I’m also there.

Do you think this constant connection with our home country makes integration harder? Should we sometimes be more mindful and disconnect a bit from what’s happening “back home” to be more present where we are?

Nancy
Very interesting question.

I see it as a skill – what we call cultural awareness.

We live in a global world that bombards us with information. So first you need to be aware of a few things:

I am here in Germany.

I have a strong connection to Mexico and I receive a constant stream of information from there.

But my life, right now, is here.

You need to understand:

Who you are, which cultures shape you, what you want to achieve in Germany and how you can actually enjoy your life here. For that, you need to understand your culture shock process.

What is culture shock?

Sigrid
So what exactly is culture shock?

Nancy
Culture shock is a phase in your life where you suddenly lose all your familiar symbols: language, social codes, small routines ,religious or spiritual frameworks, your comfort zone.

You step out of that reality and suddenly everything moves. You don’t fully know who you are in this new context.

You feel: anxiety, fear, confusion. This is normal. But you need tools and support to say:

“Okay, I’m here. This feels dangerous. How do I move up again? What can I do for my integration and adaptation so I can actually enjoy my life here?”

Culture shock is the loss of your previous reality – and the beginning of building a new one.

When frustration turns into anger at “the other culture”

Sigrid
And with culture shock often comes a bit of hate or resentment toward the other culture.

For example: in Mexico, we’re famously late. It’s part of the culture. Then you come here and you’re told you have to be five minutes early for everything. Inside, there’s this little voice going: “Why? Why so rigid?” And if you’re not careful, that frustration can turn into “Germans are so cold, so strict…”

Nancy
That’s a great example. This is where intercultural work really matters. You need to understand your own cultural mindset: In Mexico, we tend to be flexible, with short-term planning and a strong talent for improvisation.

That’s not random. It comes from our reality: politics, social structures, nature, infrastructure – many factors.

You need to know:

“This is my cultural programming. This is normal for me because of where I come from.”

Then you look at where you are now:

Germany is shaped by long-term planning, structure, rules, punctuality.

Punctuality has roots in Protestant values and a very particular historical development.

Here, it’s a sign of respect.

So it’s not “Germans are obsessed,” it’s: “This is important in this cultural context. I need to understand that.”

Then you can say:

“Okay, this is my culture – I’m flexible and spontaneous. That’s not ‘wrong’. But here, in certain contexts, I choose to adapt. For work, I’m punctual and structured. In my free time, I can be more relaxed and spontaneous.”

You play with cultural tools instead of fighting them. That’s exactly what I do with people in my trainings: I show them that this can be a game, not a punishment.

Migration as constant inner work

Sigrid
I like that idea: treat it as a game, not as something negative.

Migration, to me, feels like constant psychological training. You’re constantly confronting your fears, your habits, your identity. Just when you think you’ve figured it out, you start again at a new level.

Nancy
Exactly.

For us interculturalists it’s almost a mental map:

You’re coming from a culture with short-term, flexible perception.

You move into one with long-term, structured perception.

When you understand where you stand on that map, you can relax and start to enjoy it instead of only suffering through it.

The book: “Bravo, soy internacional”

Sigrid
You give people these tools through your work – and through your book. Tell us about it.

Nancy
My book is called “Bravo, soy internacional”.

I wrote it because when I first arrived in Germany, I had so many questions. Seven years in, I hit another big culture shock.

That’s when I began studying interculturality. Those tools helped me understand my new life. I read many biographies and intercultural books, but they were mostly in English or German – not Spanish.

I realised we were missing something: tools in our language, for our experiences.

So I wrote this book for Spanish-speaking migrants. It mixes: explanations and tools about intercultural processes and success stories from other people who have gone through similar journeys. It’s both a mirror and a toolbox.

Sigrid
Where can we find you and your work?

Nancy
My website is minusintercultural.com.

You can also find me as nancy.bravo on Instagram, LinkedIn and Facebook.

What happens in your workshops?

Sigrid
You also offer workshops. What can someone expect if they join one?

Nancy
An intense and beautiful day.

We do: role plays, exercises, videos, case studies.

You don’t just “listen,” you experience your process with your body, your emotions and your mind.

The goal is that you:

-understand what’s happening in your own migration process

-get practical tools to navigate it

-and leave feeling lighter, clearer and more connected

It’s very interactive and very experiential.

Sigrid
Nancy, I think we could talk about this for hours. I’d love to do a part two in a few months – especially to talk more about how we deal with external political pressure and rising anti-immigrant narratives, and how we can keep building bridges instead of walls.

Nancy
Yes, of course. Great idea.

Sigrid
Thank you so much for being with us today. We’ll bring you back for part two – and in the meantime, we’ll keep spreading apapachos wherever we can.

Nancy
Thank you for the invitation. Bye bye.